[Debate] Gay Marriage

[amad2]

Hitler had a similar outlook on Jewish people that Homophobes have against Gay people, throw them all in the gas chamber, that's essentially the motive for homophobes.

Hitler also hated Gays, so if we were going to get really nasty, you could be compared to Hitler. Ignore me.

[Necromancer]

Sure it's discrimination. But so is not letting people under 21 drink, and not letting pot smokers have weed legally, and not letting people under 18 join the army, and not letting four year olds sit in a normal car seat, or not letting people under 18 have drivers' licenses. Or how about the areas that don't sell alcohol on Sunday? Or all of the restaurants that make people smoke outside? It's all discrimination.

Wow, you have no idea what the word discrimination means.
Next you'll be telling me that it's discriminatory that 5 year olds can't purchase guns. I mean, that's what you bigots believe anyway right? Anything to justify your homophobia.

[SilentMan101]

Well looky what they wanna do nowwww.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/0...-sex-benefits/

[Necromancer]

Well looky what they wanna do nowwww.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/0...-sex-benefits/

I want you to fucking look at this KoopaDasher. Because if you can honestly look at this and agree with this, you're a fucking monster.

[Eggboy'13]

You like dudes? Shit, can't have that. Sorry, you're not fully eligible to be a person.

Anyone against gays in the least can go fuck themselves.

[Throavium]

You like dudes? Shit, can't have that. Sorry, you're not fully eligible to be a person.

I laughed.

[stevencho]

I want you to fucking look at this KoopaDasher. Because if you can honestly look at this and agree with this, you're a fucking monster.

Please calm down with the language.

In this case, my state used the due process of law to decide on whether or not gay marriage should be legal. My state is largely conservative. Almost entirely Christian. It doesn't have a large minority population. And it is largely rural. The people of this state decided that gay marriage went against their shared beliefs as a community, and a voting majority of nearly three quarters of the state passed the bill into law to ban gay marriage.

I still don't understand why we need to force our religious beliefs onto others by means of the government.

[KoopaDasher]

It's despicable to think that people like you still exist in today's world. First white people had a problem with black people, making them their slaves and now straight people or homophobes are strictly against legalizing gay marriage. Putting them in the exact same catagory as the black people were in during the early 20th century.

Are you REALLY going to put gay marriage in the same category as slavery? REALLY? That's incredibly offensive to anyone of a different race. You're saying that people who aren't allowed to MARRY in this state, but have every other benefit of living in a free society, are comparable to people who were enslaved, tortured, sold, raped, and worked like dogs until death.

That's disgusting. That's really, really disgusting.

[KoopaDasher]

I want you to fucking look at this KoopaDasher. Because if you can honestly look at this and agree with this, you're a fucking monster.

Yes, I agree with it. They're not recognized legally anymore, so there's no way they can be recognized with benefits. Those were the consequences of it being made illegal.

[KoopaDasher]

And I just have to say... it's really hilarious how you guys preach tolerance of everyone and everything, then when someone disagrees with you, you're like a bunch of medieval tyrants "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!". It's ridiculous. Tolerance implies a tolerance of EVERY belief, even one you don't agree with. Who are you to force your beliefs onto other people, when you can't even accept the beliefs of someone else?

[Necromancer]

That's disgusting. That's really, really disgusting.

Who are you to force your beliefs onto other people

You have got to be the biggest hypocrite I've ever met, you know that?
You're not looking at this from a political point of view, or anything like that, you're looking it it from a homophobic bigot's point of view trying to convince yourself that what you did is right, when in reality you just see them as lesser people.

And forcing our beliefs on you? What the hell do you think YOU'RE doing. No ones forcing you to be gay, but you're forcing gays to... well not be gay. You're a monster.

[beardedwalrus]

you guys preach tolerance of everyone and everything,

Who exactly is doing that?

[slimd1995]

And I just have to say... it's really hilarious how you guys preach tolerance of everyone and everything, then when someone disagrees with you, you're like a bunch of medieval tyrants "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!". It's ridiculous. Tolerance implies a tolerance of EVERY belief, even one you don't agree with. Who are you to force your beliefs onto other people, when you can't even accept the beliefs of someone else?

Nobody should have to "tolerate" gays the same way gays don't "tolerate" straight people.

You honestly believe that ALL beliefs should be tolerated? If someone's beliefs are that all asians should be executed, should we tolerate that? No, of course not. It's blatant bigotry and it's unacceptable.

This community doesn't accept hateful beliefs.

[Leegion]

Are you REALLY going to put gay marriage in the same category as slavery? REALLY? That's incredibly offensive to anyone of a different race. You're saying that people who aren't allowed to MARRY in this state, but have every other benefit of living in a free society, are comparable to people who were enslaved, tortured, sold, raped, and worked like dogs until death.

That's disgusting. That's really, really disgusting.

No, what's "disgusting" is the fact that you are putting same-sex partners in the same catagory as those that have been enslaved. You're telling them not to live the life they choose, therefore chaining them which is essentially enslaving them to live a life you choose for them. You're basically telling them they can't do what they want, that they cannot marry their partner because they are in a same-sex relationship, which equals torture in a way.

It's absolutely pathetic to think, that in this day and age people are STILL telling people how to live their lives because of some sort of religious belief or ideal. Let me just say, that yes, I am putting gay marriage into the same catagory as slavery, because it's essentially the same f'ing thing. You're chaining them to a system, making them seem less-important because of who they are and how they choose to live and love. You're essentially constraining them to live the life you choose for them. Is that any different from slavery?

Oh, and as for having every benefit of living in a free society, that's a load of bs. If I'm not mistaken, some asshole senator is trying to force a law which prohibits same-sex couples from claiming benefits. So, in your statement, which is quoted, how do they claim the same benefits of living in a free society if their benefits are going to be cut? It's not a free society, because gay marriage has been outlawed in some states, meaning they AREN'T free, so they're basically slaves to an age old system of "if they aren't straight, then they're not welcome."

That right there, is the cold hearted truth about the disrespectful homophobic biggots of the world. It's not a free-society for gay/lesbian people, they have to abide by rules because homophobia still exists. It's 2012, not 1970, legalizing gay marriage WILL NOT make a damn difference to you, so why oppose it?

[woopwoop11]

KoopaDasher do you live in North Carolina?

[Spiderpig24]

Maybe this would help. A large portion of people in this state don't think of gays as being people. I'm not saying I'm that way, because I'm not, but it's an observation I've made about others. They pretty much see them as animals.

Wasn't is you that was telling me about a year ago that "Gayness" was just a disease that should be cured?

[YoshiStar]

First of all, I want to make it clear that I don't hate you as a person, Koopa. You're a really smart guy and you make a lot of valid points. I've also noticed that, despite what others think, you're quite open-minded. You don't stick to a belief just because it makes you happy. You do research and figure out what makes the most sense, whether it makes you comfortable or uncomfortable. But from what I've heard you say so far about this topic, it seems (I'm not sure because I'm not you and I don't know everything that's going in that brain of yours) like there's some homophobia. Voting against something because you want to take revenge? That's immature and doesn't seem like you. Saying that it's fine that homosexuals don't get all the same rights as others and coming up with bad comparisons like "Children under 18 don't have the right to drive, either" REALLY doesn't seem like you. I get the sense that you're trying hard to justify your feelings that you have from growing up with parents who constantly look down on it. Can you acknowledge that there's obviously DISCRIMINATION happening against homosexuals? That despite being human, they are being treated unfairly and not being granted the same rights as other people? If you say yes to any of these questions, I really don't see how you can continue doing what you're doing without being a hypocrite or atleast knowing that what you're doing is wrong.

Next question:
Do you think that, subconsciously or consciously, you're a homophobe?

[madoublex]

First of all, I want to make it clear that I don't hate you as a person, Koopa. You're a really smart guy and you make a lot of valid points. I've also noticed that, despite what others think, you're quite open-minded. You don't stick to a belief just because it makes you happy. You do research and figure out what makes the most sense, whether it makes you comfortable or uncomfortable. But from what I've heard you say so far about this topic, it seems (I'm not sure because I'm not you and I don't know everything that's going in that brain of yours) like there's some homophobia. Voting against something because you want to take revenge? That's immature and doesn't seem like you. Saying that it's fine that homosexuals don't get all the same rights as others and coming up with bad comparisons like "Children under 18 don't have the right to drive, either" REALLY doesn't seem like you. I get the sense that you're trying hard to justify your feelings that you have from growing up with parents who constantly look down on it. Can you acknowledge that there's obviously DISCRIMINATION happening against homosexuals? That despite being human, they are being treated unfairly and not being granted the same rights as other people? If you say yes to any of these questions, I really don't see how you can continue doing what you're doing without being a hypocrite or atleast knowing that what you're doing is wrong.

Next question:
Do you think that, subconsciously or consciously, you're a homophobe?

Holy crap, you just went all Dr. Phill.

[KoopaDasher]

But from what I've heard you say so far about this topic, it seems (I'm not sure because I'm not you and I don't know everything that's going in that brain of yours) like there's some homophobia. Voting against something because you want to take revenge? That's immature and doesn't seem like you.

I was actually going to vote against the measure. I was going to vote to make it legal, because I really didn't care either way. The supporters of gay marriage that I know are usually good people, and I had no reason not to trust their judgment. But then the morning of the vote I did research on the topic, and looked at the results and possible consequences of the bill. I saw that everything the supporters of gay marriage were saying was a lie. They were twisting the truth and taking it out of context to create arguments that simply were not true. When I saw that, I became angry.

Personally, I don't believe that people should be forced to accept a new moral stance. Being forced by law to tolerate something does NOT change the belief. You think that, just because the laws allow it, it's suddenly a better environment? Guess again. People still hate it. Even forty years after the Civil Rights Act, people are still racist in this area. Laws change nothing in regards to people's opinions. If gays tried to get married in this state, they would find themselves the victims of more hatred than they could ever imagine. People here don't WANT it to be legal. Whether you think it's right or not, it doesn't change the fact that the majority of people here don't think it's right.

You want it changed? Show people that gays are people too. No one's doing that. Go to any college town, and you don't see rallies where gay people try to show others that they are the same. They have rallies where they dress in women's clothes, or they have events where they wear bondage clothes and talk about sex all night. They do everything possible to show how DIFFERENT they are, when no one has ever become more accepting of ANYONE by finding out how different they are. People become more comfortable with others when they realize how much they have in common. When they see that they really do understand one another after all. Having gay rallies where people protest nude doesn't do that. Nothing's going to improve until they show their opponents that their right to marry will NOT devalue marriage.

Can you acknowledge that there's obviously DISCRIMINATION happening against homosexuals? That despite being human, they are being treated unfairly and not being granted the same rights as other people? If you say yes to any of these questions, I really don't see how you can continue doing what you're doing without being a hypocrite or atleast knowing that what you're doing is wrong.

Yes, it's discrimination. Yes, it's wrong. But as I've explained above, forcing a law on the majority of people in a state will create nothing but pain for everyone. The day that the law passes on its own without having to push people into voting, without using fear tactics, that will be the day it deserves to be passed. Until that day, whether it's right or not, it will make nothing better for anyone to have a law passed against the wishes of the majority. It will only create hate.

Next question:
Do you think that, subconsciously or consciously, you're a homophobe?[/QUOTE]

No, I don't. I know gay people. I talk to gay people. I have no issue with gay people, be they on this site or otherwise. I've moved beyond that. My stance on the issue is purely political.

[YoshiStar]

Ah, okay. That actually makes a lot more sense. I think people are too quick to judge you and call you ignorant or a bigot. You're saying that changing the law won't change the opinions of people. In fact, you're saying that if the law is changed it may cause MORE violence, hatred, and other problems since the majority does not accept homosexuality. That actually makes a lot of sense to me. It's sad that there are so many unwilling to accept a different type of lifestyle. What there truly needs to be is a change in opinions ... I wonder how we can bring about that change? Well, scratch that. The change is already happening slowly. The acceptance is increasing. I'm not so sure as to what is causing this increase, but I'm glad it's happening.

I guess that's the new question. What can be done to increase the acceptance of gays?